Diskusija:Prajāgrādža

Prajāgrāja = Pareizais vārds

Prayagraj oficiāli tika nosaukts 2018. gadā. Tāpat kā Madras un Chennai 1996. gadā. Šis raksts ir pārvietots.

Lielākā daļa citu Vikipēdiju to jau ir labojušas.

Oficiālā vietne: https://prayagraj.nic.in/

Kad tas tiek adresēts? --Tecumseh*1301 (diskusija) 2020. gada 20. maijs, plkst. 03.35 (EEST)

Par lielāko daļu nav īsti taisnība — no saprotamiem alfabētiem ir 38 Allahābādas un 16 Prajāgas. --ScAvenger (diskusija) 2020. gada 20. maijs, plkst. 07.29 (EEST)

+skatīt enwiki diskusiju. Piekrītu, ka šis nav no tiem gadījumiem, kad obligāti jāseko līdz enwiki. --Edgars2007 (diskusija) 2020. gada 20. maijs, plkst. 18.36 (EEST)

Neredzu pamata pārvietošanai, vēl jo vairāk neredzu pamata pārvietošanai uz nosaukumu, kāda nav nevienā citā valodā. Hindi, piemēram, tā - spriežot pēc mašīntulkojuma - ir Prajagradža.--Egilus (diskusija) 2020. gada 26. maijs, plkst. 14.11 (EEST)

Oficiālais nosaukums ir Prayagraj, un tas kādreiz bija. Pārvietošanai ir jānotiek. Vairums Wikipedias to jau ir izdarījušas, ieskaitot franču, vācu, itāļu un portugāļu Wikipedia. Lēmums nepārcelties būtu kā spiegs visu indiāņu priekšā, it īpaši tiem, kuri okupācijas laikā piedzīvoja briesmīgas lietas. Allahabada nozīmē arī Allahabada ar galotni latviešu valodā, līdz ar to pāreja uz tipisku latviešu vārdu ar burtu beigās, t.i., Prayagraja, nevis Prayagraj. --Tecumseh*1301 (diskusija) 2020. gada 27. maijs, plkst. 01.40 (EEST)

Latviešu valodā vispār lieto burtus citādi kā angļu valodā un jebkurš jūsu variants ir nepareizs. Un ja gribat, lai jūs saprastu, labāk rakstiet angliski nekā mašīntulkojumā uz latviešu.--Egilus (diskusija) 2020. gada 27. maijs, plkst. 09.29 (EEST)

Well, many Wikipedias already have changed the name's article correctly to Prayagraj (among them sre the French, Italian, Portuguese, German and many more) , because 1. it was officially renamed by the official and achknowledged government and 2. it is just a returning of the old name after the the ruling conquerors renamed the city themselves.

And if these arguments arent enough, then maybe because Google and Britannica the two most important references online accepted the new name, and so will every Wikipedia, it just is a question when and that it takes so long is a shame. --Tecumseh*1301 (diskusija) 2020. gada 28. maijs, plkst. 22.55 (EEST)

We'll probably wait for the new name to appear in a geographic atlas (a Latvian one) or a decision from a Latvian language regulator on how to render the name in the Latvian alphabet as it was the case of eSwatini. Besides, the rendering is based on the pronunciation in the original language rather than simply adding "-a" at the end. Plus, Britannica is not an authority for us on how to call the city in Latvian and "Prajāgrāja" does not appear anywhere outside Wikipedia in Google. —Turaids (diskusija) 2020. gada 28. maijs, plkst. 23.25 (EEST)

Well, it really is funny, that you mention the discussion about the article on „Swasiland“ while trying to tell that we have to wait til it appears in a Latvian geographic atlas, while it actually WAS YOU who participiated in the debate on Swasiland the same only that your words were quite different back then, which is not that long ago. Not only that Britannica was in fact a reasonable source for renaming the article, but also you didnt want to have to wait til it appears in a atlas - quite the opposite of what you write right now. I am sorry but under these circumstances one has to question your point of view as well as the reasons for you denying the right of The Indian government to determine their cities Name back to the old name, when it was alright back then with Swasiland, and when it was alright with Mumbai, Chennai and Kolkata.

--Tecumseh*1301 (diskusija) 2020. gada 29. maijs, plkst. 02.23 (EEST)

tomēr jautājums paliek: vai ir mainījies valsts nosaukums latviešu valodā? es sliecos ka drīzāk jā, ir mainījies, vai būtu jāmaina. bet, protams, pasaulē netrūkst valstu, kur oriģinālais nosaukums ir atšķirīgs no latviešu vai pat starptautiski lietotā. vēršu arī uzmanību uz to, ka raksta nosaukums angļu valodā nav mainījies. --Biafra (diskusija) 2018. gada 2. oktobris, plkst. 12.32 (EEST) Vikipēdija angļu valodā skatās uz citiem dinamiskajiem tīmekļa avotiem (piemēram, Britannica) un starptautiskajām organizācijām. Mums tādu avotu īsti nav, tāpēc nezinu, kā vēl konstatēt — mainījies vai nemainījies. Mūsu plašsaziņas līdzekļu redzeslokā Svazilenda/Svatini droši vien tik drīz vairs nenokļūs un nezin cik gadus līdz jaunam Lielajam pasaules atlantam arī diezin vai gaidīsim. —Turaids (diskusija) 2018. gada 3. oktobris, plkst. 21.52 (EEST) Britannica esot pārmainījusi (pats nepārbaudīju), diezgan ticams, ka vikipēdija angļu valodā sekos. --Biafra (diskusija) 2018. gada 3. oktobris, plkst. 23.11 (EEST) Jā, Britannica ir nomainījuši, ANO arī. Bet varam sagaidīt, kad nomaina Vikipēdijā angļu valodā. Tur gan vēl notiek šķēpu laušana. —Turaids (diskusija) 2018. gada 3. oktobris, plkst. 23.30 (EEST)

These are the words on the discussion page of Latvian Svatini

It's a shame, how easy you want to fool someone.

--Tecumseh*1301 (diskusija) 2020. gada 29. maijs, plkst. 02.25 (EEST)

I see that in fact there are people on Latvian Wikipedia, that want to rename the article as they did with Svatini and have the same guidelines be used on every occasion and not just in cases they consider worth it. So there are really no arguments left, when there are, please tell them or change the name to Prayagraj or Prayagraja so that right is being fulfilled and not bended.

--Tecumseh*1301 (diskusija) 2020. gada 29. maijs, plkst. 02.30 (EEST)

Really, it seems somebody don't understand that he are in Wikipedia in Latvian language and the Latvian language has its own transcription rules. English "j" in Latvian never had been transcripted as "j" and it will never done in such way at future. (F.e., Rajasthan in Latvian is Rādžastāna.) You should have a little knowledge in this theme before you speak about a shame - you simply don't understand the problems (linguistic troubles are the most often in Latvian Wiki). Besides, India is independent from 1949 and the name is changed only now - and we can wait the same 70 years at least. And the next state government can change the name back. Latvian Wikipedia is not the propagandistic branch of Bharatiya Janata Party, we work with the information in Latvian, not create it.--Egilus (diskusija) 2020. gada 29. maijs, plkst. 03.46 (EEST)

Wow, you "exposed" me! For someone who shames others, you do like to resort to dirty tricks. I don't think you really have an idea of exactly what I said with your Google Translate. I never said Britannica is a reference suitable FOR US, nor that the geographical atlases are not. And you conveniently left out my first comment from the Swaziland discussion where I explicitly said that it's time to rename the article BECAUSE after half a year we finally have a decision from the linguists. —Turaids (diskusija) 2020. gada 29. maijs, plkst. 10.25 (EEST)

Yes, you are exposed of playing with tricks and you should be ashamed and not defensive. It is as simple as it is. Because Swasiland was renamed here on Latvian Wikipedia, so Prayagraj has to be renamed. Everything else would only mean, that you apply your guidelines as you wish. Just because of your subjective dislike of the governing party in India right now, that should not be considered a suitable argument. Kaliningrad is also named Kaliningrad in Wikipedia except for one's dislike of Joseph Stalin, and I think we have the same view on this dictator, havent we (finally). --Tecumseh*1301 (diskusija) 2020. gada 29. maijs, plkst. 18.33 (EEST)

You really don't get it, do you? The article about Swaziland was renamed only after there was an official decision on it by the Latvian State Language Centre. When there's a similar decision about Prayagraj or it's included in a Latvian-language atlas we'll do the same. So far it has none of those things, so you're the one demanding we make a special exception for you. —Turaids (diskusija) 2020. gada 29. maijs, plkst. 18.55 (EEST)

Well the Turaids on the Svatini discussion page is quite the opposite. He doesn't want to wait all those year til a new atlas is being published. So what is so different.. what are your Real motivations? --Tecumseh*1301 (diskusija) 2020. gada 30. maijs, plkst. 02.16 (EEST)

One cannot walk around and spam all the Wikipedias with this stuff and then try and pull the "real motivations" card on others without appearing like an absolute hypocrite. —Turaids (diskusija) 2020. gada 30. maijs, plkst. 02.31 (EEST)

1. I don't „spam“, I just want the right name being applied, short and plausible. Many Wikipedias changed the name already before I even got to know about the issue, amongst them pretty big ones like French, Portuguese and Italian. And when I have the same view again and again that is not „hypocrite“ at all, but the opposite, because I don't change. The only one who changes his point of view and argumentation is you. So maybe you can tell, why that is. And maybe you can see, that when this argumentation is applied on the Latvian page of Svatini it has to be applied to Prayagraj as well. No bad blood between us, just keep it fair and opt for a name change, because the Indian government has all the right to do so, it is accepted in most engines already and Wikipedias and will be on Latvian Wikipedia as well, it is just a question of now or later. The people in Prayagraj are mostly Hindus, they prefer the name Prayagraj for sure as well, so maybe that is another of them many arguments. --Tecumseh*1301 (diskusija) 2020. gada 30. maijs, plkst. 22.12 (EEST)

Your attempts at strawmanning me are not convincing anyone because those who actually know Latvian (unlike you) can read for themselves what I said and did not say. It only further discredits you and your cause. —Turaids (diskusija) 2020. gada 31. maijs, plkst. 00.04 (EEST)

Well of course, Turaids, everything you say is true ;) I am sorry, but the facts are speaking for themselves. You discredited yourself, I didn't have to do that.. so let's get away from the personal level and back to the topic. You know, that The Latvian Language Institute and atlas wont deal with this minor name change in a long time in a long time, that's why you proposing it, as you said in the Svatini discussion it would take a long time til Svatini appears in an atlas and that implies, that this in no proper option to wait til s name appears in an atlas. So you just can't say that it's now a proper method.

So well let's look again at the arguments:

arguments for a name change to Prayagraj:

1. it is official 2. made not by a minor regional insitution, but the legitimate government of India which is acknowledged by every Country 3. Many Wikipedias have accepted the name change amongst them almost all of the big ones 4. the inhabitants of Prayagraj, the majority Hindus, will for sure be pro the new name and not the name given by the Occupators 5.Prayagraj is derived from the original name of the city, which even has existed longer than the new name 6.we cant wait til it appears in an atlas and we shouldn't which is your opinion ad well, at least has been a few months back

So, write all your arguments and then Latvian Wikipedianer should decide, which option has more and more important, stronger arguments. So we finally can come to an end and have a decision. --Tecumseh*1301 (diskusija) 2020. gada 31. maijs, plkst. 20.40 (EEST)

Majaslapa

Labdien, vai man ir atļauts mainīt sākumlapas nosaukumu uz tā pareizo nosaukumu prayagraj.nic.in? jo tas automātiski novirza uz jauno vārdu, ierakstot Allahabad.nic.in.

Zemāk es nosūtīšu saites uz Latvijas vietnēm, kurās jau tika pārslēgts uz Jauno vārdu Prayagraj, nevis uz veco vārdu, tāpēc cerams, ka tas drīz novedīs pie raksta nosaukuma pārdēvēšanas par Prayagraj.

https://lav.newsmarttraveller.com/india-is-known-india-962711

https://lv.finetravelcompany.com/how-visit-worlds-best-music-cities-581791

https://datetime24.com/lv/time-in/Indija/Prayagraj

https://lv.ianstravels.com/16739-nag-panchami-festival-india-complete-guide-4177528-22

https://utreradeportes.org/lv/asia/103-in-the-thick-of-the-world8217s-largest-gathering-8211-kumbh-mela.html

https://lv.ciwanekurd.net/4663-curiosities-and-legends-of-the-game-of-ludo.html

https://www.pikist.com/free-photo-sksha/lv

https://m.facebook.com/permalink.php?id=373222776777478&story_fbid=423890648377357

Labi pavadiet laiku un palieciet drošībā un veselībā.

--Tecumseh*1301 (diskusija) 2021. gada 28. janvāris, plkst. 23.14 (EET)

None of these websites can be called "Latvian". Thes are community translations. Papuass (diskusija) 2021. gada 28. janvāris, plkst. 23.27 (EET)

Labi, sasodīts, ne vārds Prayagraj, ne vārds Allahabad nav parādījies nevienā ziņā kopš 2018. gada. Tas ir tikai pilnīgi nesvarīgi Latvijas medijiem. : D

Kas par manu citu jautājumu. Vai mājas lapas nosaukumu var labot, jo tas automātiski mainās, ievadot vietni Allahabad.nic.in, jūs nonākat vietnē Prayagraj.nic.in .. Tecumseh*1301 (diskusija) 2021. gada 29. janvāris, plkst. 01.08 (EET)

Mājaslapas nosaukumu var mainīt uz aktuālo. Papuass (diskusija) 2021. gada 29. janvāris, plkst. 10.10 (EET)

Es domāju, ka tā ir daudz labēja domāšana, ka netiek pieņemts cilvēku pašdēvēšana par savu valsti.

Neviens joprojām Allahabadu nesauc par Allahabadu latviešu valodā, un neviens Allahabadu neprasa Prayagraj latviešu valodā, Latvijas plašsaziņas līdzekļi vienkārši nerūp.

Bet tas, ka šajā gadījumā cilvēki saka, mēs to nesaucam par veco versiju, bet mēs to parasti nedēvējam par Jauno versiju ir ļoti augstprātīgi.

Ja kāds to nesauc par veco versiju, viņš var cienīt un pieņemt vārdu, ko cilvēki piešķir savai pilsētai, lūdzu, pārdēvējiet rakstu Prayagraj.

If someone doesnt call it by its old Name, as well as someone doesnt call it by its new Name in Latvian language, he should ave some respect and accept the city's New name, which is accepted and used by the people of the City, which is Prayagraj. --Tecumseh*1301 (diskusija) 2021. gada 20. marts, plkst. 23.39 (EET)

@Kikos kādas cerības sagaidīt, ka kāda komisija pieņems lēmumu pārsaukt uz jauno nosaukumu? Papuass (diskusija) 2021. gada 21. marts, plkst. 00.00 (EET)

Praktiski nekādu. Pašiem jāizlemj. Ja centrālā valdība ir apstiprinājusi, tad droši vien tā arī turpmāk būs. Varam protams gaidīt līdz vēlēšanām, kurās uzvarēs ne-BJP un kādu lēmumu tad pieņems. --Kikos (diskusija) 2021. gada 21. marts, plkst. 09.44 (EET)

Varētu gaidīt, vai tas mainās, kad tiek ievēlēta valdība, kas nav BJP valdība.

Bet, tā kā vecais vārds tika ne tikai uzlikts, bet tam noteikti bija reliģiski aspekti, kas lielākajai daļai Pragražraj iedzīvotāju nekad nav patikuši, atgriešanās Allahābadā būtu vairāk nekā maz ticama, jo tas ir nepopulāri.

Mēs varam mainīt raksta nosaukumu uz Prayagraj, un, ja tas patiešām attiecas uz maz ticams pārdēvēšanu Allahabadā, jūs varat mainīt rakstu vēlreiz, tas ir iespējams.

Paldies par demokrātijas atzīšanu, ir svarīgi, lai tiktu atzīts arī tas, ko izlemj tauta. Tecumseh*1301 (diskusija) 2021. gada 10. jūnijs, plkst. 11.24 (EEST)

@Papuass

Tātad mēs mainām raksta nosaukumu uz Prayagraj un, ja pilsēta tiek mainīta atpakaļ uz Allahabad, kas ir ļoti maz ticams, vai mēs varam mainīt rakstu atpakaļ uz Allahabad? Ok?

--Tecumseh*1301 (diskusija) 2021. gada 22. jūnijs, plkst. 09.53 (EEST)

Kā jūs rakstā ierakstītu vārdu Prayagraj kā citās Vikipēdijās vai ar a beigās Prayagraja? Tecumseh*1301 (diskusija) 2021. gada 23. jūnijs, plkst. 13.00 (EEST)